Comments on: How To Learn A Tonal Language http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/ study abroad programs Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:58:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Jeff http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4544 Jeff Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:50:03 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4544 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=328 This is a method called HPVT (High Variability Phonetic Training) of teaching people to distinguish between sounds aren't differentiated in their native languages. For example, in Russian there are two sounds that both sound like "sh" to untrained English ears, because we only have one "sh" sound. I could tell the difference when I had a Russian speaker say both sounds a few times alternating--"sh, sch, sh, sch"--and I can even produce both now, but if I were to hear either one alone in a sentence or word, I wouldn't be able to tell you which it was. HPVT is supposed to train you to do that. I'm considering using this method for Spanish's r/rr, but it sounds like the perfect way to learn tones, and I intend to use it for the tonal language I'm trying to learn as well. Only thing is, there's more than two tones. Worth a try, though. This is probably important--"If you test repeatedly on a single example, subjects won't be able to generalize to other examples. If you use just one speaker, then subjects won't be able to generalize to the productions of others. But experience with a few different repetitions of a few dozen example types by each of a half a dozen or so varied speakers seems to be enough to allow generalization to new examples and new speakers." http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=328

This is a method called HPVT (High Variability Phonetic Training) of teaching people to distinguish between sounds aren’t differentiated in their native languages. For example, in Russian there are two sounds that both sound like “sh” to untrained English ears, because we only have one “sh” sound.

I could tell the difference when I had a Russian speaker say both sounds a few times alternating–”sh, sch, sh, sch”–and I can even produce both now, but if I were to hear either one alone in a sentence or word, I wouldn’t be able to tell you which it was. HPVT is supposed to train you to do that.

I’m considering using this method for Spanish’s r/rr, but it sounds like the perfect way to learn tones, and I intend to use it for the tonal language I’m trying to learn as well. Only thing is, there’s more than two tones. Worth a try, though.

This is probably important–”If you test repeatedly on a single example, subjects won’t be able to generalize to other examples. If you use just one speaker, then subjects won’t be able to generalize to the productions of others. But experience with a few different repetitions of a few dozen example types by each of a half a dozen or so varied speakers seems to be enough to allow generalization to new examples and new speakers.”

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]]> By: Sid http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4418 Sid Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:29:17 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4418 I guess it's a blessing to be raised tri-lingual, eh? I'm fluent in English, Vietnamese, and Lao, but unfortunately, I can only write in English. I can still read in Vietnamese and Lao, at least. I guess it’s a blessing to be raised tri-lingual, eh?
I’m fluent in English, Vietnamese, and Lao, but unfortunately, I can only write in English. I can still read in Vietnamese and Lao, at least.

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]]> By: Marie http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4401 Marie Tue, 20 Oct 2009 03:19:33 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4401 Great ideas, Whitney. I've also lived in VN and should've stayed longer as I never got past survival language mode. I've been learning Thai off and on for a number of years and when I go there and am surrounded by the sounds a lot falls into place for me. But by the time I visit the next time it feels like I'm starting all over! Someone needs to invent an ear trainer. Turner, I think you're talking about the phrase, "Green wood doesn't burn, does it?" Great ideas, Whitney. I’ve also lived in VN and should’ve stayed longer as I never got past survival language mode. I’ve been learning Thai off and on for a number of years and when I go there and am surrounded by the sounds a lot falls into place for me. But by the time I visit the next time it feels like I’m starting all over! Someone needs to invent an ear trainer. Turner, I think you’re talking about the phrase, “Green wood doesn’t burn, does it?”

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]]> By: Whitney http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4363 Whitney Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:56:37 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4363 I've never seen that done before, but I imagine if you've had musical training that might help. Sadly, I lack experience with sheet music so I can't say for sure. I’ve never seen that done before, but I imagine if you’ve had musical training that might help. Sadly, I lack experience with sheet music so I can’t say for sure.

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]]> By: Grant Lingel http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4359 Grant Lingel Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:14:14 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4359 Great post and wonderful advice! There really is nothing better than learning new languages and overcoming the long road it takes to become conversational! Great post and wonderful advice! There really is nothing better than learning new languages and overcoming the long road it takes to become conversational!

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]]> By: Tim Patterson http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4356 Tim Patterson Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:50:46 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4356 Very good article. Especially liked the line about singing an order to the fruit vendor! Very good article. Especially liked the line about singing an order to the fruit vendor!

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]]> By: Turner http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4354 Turner Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:29:01 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4354 Tone deaf in Vietnam - my condolences. That's one reason I tell people Thai is much more difficult than Japanese; in Japan, there are only one sound for each vowel. In Thai... five each? Can anyone remind me what that sentence means: mai mai mai mai mai? Tone deaf in Vietnam – my condolences. That’s one reason I tell people Thai is much more difficult than Japanese; in Japan, there are only one sound for each vowel. In Thai… five each? Can anyone remind me what that sentence means: mai mai mai mai mai?

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]]> By: Valerie http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4349 Valerie Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:04:43 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4349 Yep, learning a tonal, Asian language is a completely different ballgame from any European language. I guess I will grudgingly acknowledge now that I was lucky to have studied Mandarin as a child so it was easy for me to pick up the tones. I had a really great teacher who was good at explaining the different rising and dipping tones, so that helped too. I definitely commend anyone who can master a tonal language - it's probably the equivalent of 5 European languages. Yep, learning a tonal, Asian language is a completely different ballgame from any European language. I guess I will grudgingly acknowledge now that I was lucky to have studied Mandarin as a child so it was easy for me to pick up the tones. I had a really great teacher who was good at explaining the different rising and dipping tones, so that helped too.

I definitely commend anyone who can master a tonal language – it’s probably the equivalent of 5 European languages.

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]]> By: Nancy http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4347 Nancy Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:35:05 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4347 Really cool post. I'm curious-do they ever transcribe tonal language words onto actual sheet music? That would be a great idea for flashcards. Really cool post. I’m curious-do they ever transcribe tonal language words onto actual sheet music? That would be a great idea for flashcards.

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]]> By: joshywashington http://matadorabroad.com/how-to-learn-a-tonal-language/comment-page-1/#comment-4345 joshywashington Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:05:33 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2331#comment-4345 In my 6 months in Vietnam I managed to say maybe a half dozen phrases. I wasn't trying too hard to learn but the sing-song aspect of Vietnamese was more like memorizing music than learning a language to me. Great post! In my 6 months in Vietnam I managed to say maybe a half dozen phrases. I wasn’t trying too hard to learn but the sing-song aspect of Vietnamese was more like memorizing music than learning a language to me.

Great post!

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